Chris Jericho And David Shapiro On Creating Painmaker Graphic Novel And Growing A Community Of Metaverse Readers

|Graphic Novel: Instead of spending money on content from Amazon, get it on NFT. It’s the new world where people are now consuming entertainment.|Graphic Novel: With music artists releasing their work as NFTs, they take back control and avoid giving 80% to record companies.|Graphic Novel: NFT allows you to own a piece of it. You can contribute your own ideas, and there’s a direct line that you can use to do this.|Graphic Novel: If someone wants to start a podcast, go for it and have the best time. The biggest tip here is to listen to the best podcasters out there and learn from them.||||
August 27, 2022
NFT Chris Jericho | Graphic Novel


Reading graphics novels is a colorful experience that throws you into a brand new world and stimulates your imagination. With NFT finding its way into this genre, exciting and immersive opportunities are rising. Jeff Kelley, Eathan Janney, and Josh Kriger chat with actor, host, and author Chris Jericho about his NFT graphic novel Painmaker. Together with his producer David Shapiro, Chris shares how he brought his pro-wrestling alter ego to the world of NFT and how it naturally grows given today’s evolving technology. They also talk about the graphic novel’s ability to offer readers the unique experience of collaboration, giving birth to an expansive and creative community.

Listen to the podcast here


Chris Jericho And David Shapiro On Creating Painmaker Graphic Novel And Growing A Community Of Metaverse Readers

NFT curious readers, stay tuned for this episode and find out why an intergalactic former serial killer is disrupting the pages of a graphic novel near you, where you can buy a punch in the face from our guest, and why 14-pound branded bowling balls are the next big idea in swag bags. All this and more on this episode.

Don’t forget that we put a little soiree together called NFTLA that brought out thousands of the world’s most innovative doers in the NFT space. Head to to get tickets to our bigger, bolder, and better but also just as an intimate and impactful event happening in Los Angeles from March 20th to 23rd, 2023. See you there.

This episode features Chris Jericho, creator of The Painmaker Graphic Novel, and David Shapiro, Founder of Semkhor Studios, a unique creative consulting and media agency. Acclaimed actor, wrestler, musician, author, podcaster, and television personality, Chris Jericho has established himself as a multifaceted performer with tens of millions of fans worldwide. Chris’s initial two NFTs sold out quickly. He used the space as similar to the early days of MTV and YouTube. As a result, he has expanded his collaboration with Semkhor to create a graphic novel based on his original character, The Painmaker, which will also be sold as NFTs in the near future.

To give a little bit about David Shapiro, he founded Semkhor years ago to explore the intersection of art and tech. His experiences with music, Chinese medicine, and technology have fostered a holistic approach to businesses that looks to accomplish multiple objectives in the same process. Central to this method is to integrate student training and philanthropy into all Semkhor productions, including a fundraising effort for student scholarships as part of Kevin Smith‘s NFT film.

Finally, Semkhor is focused on artist-centric productions that fit within the efficient, streamlined development and production model it has developed. All projects are carefully chosen, inexpensive, and in partnership with recognized filmmakers. Their approach to development in combination with Semkhor’s talent network, gives them access to unique projects positioned well for the ever-expanding streaming media market. Chris is ready to chitchat. Welcome, David and Chris.

First of all, I feel bad that I didn’t get the Edge of NFT hat.

There’s a mint in 2021, Chris. You’re a little late to the party, but you know how it goes. FOMO is hard in our space. It’s like you missed the ticket to the wrestling match. It is what it is.

We have to do a bit of origin story here, though, because there’s so much to this and what you’re doing, Chris. Let’s talk a bit about the genesis of The Painmaker character and the journey you’ve been on to get it to where it is as an NFT.

Long story short, David produced and was very integral in Killroy Was Here, the movie that Kevin Smith released as the first ever full-length feature film NFT. I was in that movie. I had a connection with David. We started talking about doing something with an NFT. When I first heard the initials NFT, I had no idea what it was, “What does that mean?” It’s a non-fungible token. I’m not even trying to be funny. I thought it was some mushroom or fungus, “What does this even mean? Is it some a food product?”

I was put into my place. NFT is the way that art is going to be consumed in the future. I figured out very quickly exactly what we were dealing with here. That’s something too. When I’m talking to guys like yourselves and your fan base, we’re on the other side. We understand what NFTs are. We get it. We’re into it. There’s a whole community. When you’re on the other side of the wall where the White Walkers are, people think you’re insane talking about NFTs, “Come on. It’s not real. It’s not this.”

I’m thinking to myself, “This is probably the same type of people years ago when they said, ‘Here’s a DVD of my new movie.'” If I said to you all, “Years from now, DVDs will mean nothing. You can watch everything from your phone,” they would probably go, “You’re insane. You don’t know what you’re talking about. It will never happen.” Here we are. I understood the importance of what an NFT was and what it could be. I wanted to do something special within the space and get involved, not just to have Chris Jericho in the wrestling ring with flashing lights and some smoke. I want to do something different, more original, and unique and take advantage of this space and what NFT is.

I had this character that I was playing in Japan called The Painmaker. The Painmaker was to me what would a serial killer be if they were a pro-wrestler. I created this character based on that. I thought, “The Painmaker should be more than a character that appears in a match every few months or whenever I’m in Japan or wherever that might be. Maybe I could explore this character within the NFT universe and create a unique world based around this character in this new form of media.” That’s where it all started.

The beauty and the challenge of the space is its unlimited possibility. It probably took you on a creative journey.

To see how wide open it can be is a whole different realm. It’s funny for us to understand the possibilities of NFT, what it is, and how much you could do with it. We will get into everything, but in The Painmaker Graphic Novel itself, I’ve had 5 or 6 different companies say, “Let’s do a graphic novel.” We appreciate the graphic novel. I used to read the old school all the time as a kid. You can create a living and breathing graphic novel that changes. If someone shoots a gun, you can see the shot. You can see the lightning, the weather, or whatever it may be. It’s so much more vibrant and alive.

It’s such a more immersive experience to read this graphic novel. When we think about it, knowing what we know, ten years from now, people will be going, “It’s a graphic novel. Who wants to open up a book and read it? We want the whole experience.” It’s the perfect time to get involved in that aspect of it, never mind the millions of other things that we can do. That appealed to me creating. I’m sure there are other graphic novels, but I want to make this the first graphic novel that I’ve ever heard of and that I’ve ever seen involving this character that has a whole potential of what we can do here.

I’m an old-school wrestling fan. I admit it. I had a Hulkamania wrestling buddy when I was a kid. I think about wrestling and how it has evolved with the times and has continued to say relevant over many decades. I think about an analogy here, David, around the comic industry, how it’s reinventing itself and staying relevant, and how NFTs provide that opportunity. You’re very passionate about storytelling and all its different genres with what you’ve done with your production company. Can you give us a little bit of a smidge of how you got started and how this fits into your journey?

The graphic novel, along with Dungeons & Dragons, was the key inspirational energy for any creativity I express. I was lucky to have those twin things to work on and create a vision of the world for me when I was young and things were more difficult. With the graphic novel itself, no matter what happens in terms of streaming, metaverse, and interactivity, there will always be a space where someone wants to look at beautiful images that are mysterious and tell a story to engage you to figure out.

I believe that this collaboration with Chris is great because we are linking that with the metaverse interactive aspects of it. Possibly that solves a lot of problems in terms of cost. With a background in Chinese medicine first and then this, it’s very important to understand that the graphic novel provided a place where people could be free and independent. Graphic novels and comics now are, in many ways, much more corporate. The Painmaker character is this incredible character. Chris started talking about it. He’s a serial killer struggling with himself. He’s a real antihero, “Let’s take that to Marvel.” I don’t think they’re going to do it.

Let me explain another thing about Painmaker. The character is not Chris Jericho playing a character. Picking up what David said, I’ve seen enough Spider-Man, Batman, and Superman movies. I like most of them, but how many times can we go back to the same guy over and over again? Sooner or later, someone is going to have to come up with a new superhero. That’s when I started thinking about this Painmaker and what exactly he could be. It is a serial killer, but it’s an intergalactic reformed serial killer who now spends his time on a hunt for other intergalactic serial killers.

The problem is he still has an urge to kill innocent people deep down inside. Sometimes that comes out. There’s the antihero aspect of it. Within the NFT universe, The Painmaker can go into any galaxy. What’s a serial killer? Do you want to go to a planet of crazy clowns? There you go. Do you want to go to a planet of half-spiders and half-scorpions? Great. Do you want to go to a planet of talking shrubbery? Whatever we want to do, we can do it. Maybe he has to come home to Earth as well.

What happens if he falls in love and he has this urge to kill the woman he’s in love with? There’s so much we can do with this character within this world of an antihero that Marvel might never do, but who’s to say we couldn’t do a whole feature film with The Painmaker maker as well? Kevin already proved that you could do your feature film in the NFT universe. Is it so much harder to believe than it was years ago?

“Here’s my DVD of the green Martian movie.” Now, you don’t need the DVD. You go to Amazon Prime, Netflix, or Hulu and watch it. Who’s to say an NFT can’t be whatever the NFT platform could be, whoever creates one, or maybe there’s one already? You would know better than I would. Who’s to say you couldn’t go and spend that $5.99? Instead of getting it on Amazon, I’m going to get it on an NFT. It’s a new world where people are consuming entertainment. Don’t even get me started on all the other things you could do and all the other outlets, worlds, and forms that are out there.

NFT is becoming the way art will be consumed in the future. Click To Tweet

To me, it’s so obvious. It’s right here, but 75% or 80% of the world still doesn’t even want to know about it. They’re behind the curve. I have never been behind the curve since I was nineteen years old. I have no problem being ahead of the curve. It was the same way when I started my podcast, Talk is Jericho, in 2013. People still didn’t know what a podcast was, but because I started early and formed a great fan base, my podcast is top 200 in the world years later in a realm where there are over a million podcasts. That’s true. It keeps going.

Few of them make it.

I want to start a trend right on this show. No more NFT. We’re replacing this with programmable art because that is so much more in line with what you’re doing in this space. What I’m excited about is that everyone talks about the decentralized aspect of it. That is great. Most of the energy has been in grand visions, which is fine, and cryptocurrency and how much you can make, but the decentralized aspect for artist interaction is something else.

If the community develops around this, this will allow us to all work together to make that Painmaker animated series. That’s what excites me the most about it. It’s the fact that the NFT becomes, in this project, a gateway into the thing as opposed to something that you’re honing and trading. That being said, you could still do that, but I liked the idea that it’s the audience-artist interaction in a deeper way. This is what this project is all about.

We have been skirting around the whole time here and opening up all these possibilities. I was going to say laser disc, but that was my alternative. Programmable art could work or maybe the 8-track cassette.

Chris’s character is so dynamic. I don’t want to give away too much of it or the first story, but this first world that he’s dealing with is quite a world where a mixture of occult and quantum energy got together and created quite a mess.

How do you see all of this stuff playing out in the metaverse, other graphic novels, or your graphic novels and bringing all these things into the game? What stimulates your imagination in the coming months and years in terms of what could be done with the graphic novel?

Video games are sophisticated, but does anyone remember going to get those video games either for your kids or yourself? It’s slow. You’re going through a haunted mansion, looking for Easter eggs and unlocking them. It’s slower. There are more of those on the app. These older games were immersive, too, in their way. I see this graphic novel allowing all kinds of unlocking or finding additional content. I hope this gets people involved. It also gives people the opportunity to communicate with Chris.

Maybe they have an incredible idea or another world they should go to. We’re figuring out all these contours of it. I also know that we’re not starting with this grand thing where there has to be a fully realized technologically perfect Sony-level metaverse to have this deep enjoyment. Dungeons & Dragons, which I played heavily, was a piece of graph paper and imagination.

Here’s the thing that I liked about starting The Painmaker in the first two releases that we did. When I was presented with the idea of an NFT, what exactly could we do? I saw a lot of cool ones, but I didn’t see anything that was going the extra mile here. It’s anything that you do. I don’t care if you want to charge people $1 or $1,000. It has to be great. If I’m putting my name on it, it has to be unique and great. If someone doesn’t want to buy it, that’s fine. I don’t have a problem with that. If someone does, I need to know that I gave it my all and that it’s something that I’m proud of selling.

We came up with the idea of doing a 15 to 20-second animated short cartoon on The Painmaker maker. He’s standing there. There’s music. The spikes come out of the jacket. There’s a fire in the eyes. That was cool. It sold out very quickly, “Let’s do a second one.” What can we do? I started thinking, “Why don’t we try and do something for the second one that links to the first one?” Even though we never had this plan of how 1 will link to 2, you can easily do that.

Let’s say that when The Painmaker is faced with some danger, that’s when the spikes come out, the fire starts, and all that thing. We came up with Aractimonos, which was the intergalactic serial killer that was half-scorpion and half-spider. You see him. If he’s a skunk, he would have sprayed his smell or whatever type of animal that would see something and get involved. I was like, “We’ve got something.” That’s where the idea came from. It was almost like going with the flow.

Something I always say in wrestling and do constantly is let the story lead you. You don’t try and lead the story because then you’re trying to put square pegs into round holes. The story of this was like, “People are interested in the first one. Let’s create something that is an extension of the first one. We have a little bit of a world.” What’s the third extension? Let’s create a whole cartoon or a whole graphic novel with a living and breathing story that continues what we started in this almost teaser trailer.

We have a whole first episode or installment. That, to me, was organic. That’s always where you get the most success, especially in learning from the programmable art universe and all of this community that we have. Kudos to David. We can almost lead the charge in whatever it is that I’m doing. There are people that are so into this and understand every little way, shape, and form, but I’m leading a lot of people into this world as I do with podcasting or whatever it may be.

I also see that you’re leading with pain on your Instagram. There’s a picture of your foot with a toenail ripped off. He’s beaten up. He’s got a bandage on his head. There’s a pain theme in your life that’s transposing to this character.

It’s not going to be in the cartoon or the graphic novel. This is The Painmaker. It’s a completely different guy. It originally was an extension of me. There are people that have done this amazing artwork on The Painmaker from the few matches I had at the Tokyo Dome in Japan. There was something interesting about it. I remember the 3rd or 4th time I did it. There was a makeup artist there. The first time I did it was in the States. She was like, “Do you want me to paint these lines right?” I’m like, “The idea is supposed to be gnarly. He’s a killer. Paint some shit on his face. That’s it.”

That’s his warping. If it was like a Kiss Paul Stanley perfectly formed star, it’s not the same thing. There is a little bit of weirdness to this character because deep down inside, he’s a killer. I played Dungeons & Dragons too. This is like a Dungeons & Dragons character coming to life. It’s not you, but it’s your ideas and your thoughts, “What would it be if I was this guy?” I love the fact that we can take that to this universe and people that still don’t quite get it.

My very first trading card was from Mexico. I was called Corazón de León back then. I was wrestling only in Mexico. It’s Lionheart in Spanish. It’s a Topps trading card from Mexico from 1993. Google it. It’s the most expensive wrestling card in the world. People are trying to sell it for $500,000. Here’s my point. I have one of those cards. I don’t know where the hell it is. I can’t find it anywhere. I’ve looked through the storage. On the day I die, I’ll probably grab a book from a shelf and fall dead, and the fucking thing will come out of the book somehow.

My point is if I bought that now as programmable art or an NFT, I would never lose it ever. I would always know exactly where it was and know what I could do with it. That’s another thing about NFTs. You don’t have to worry about losing your Wayne Gretzky rookie card that was in mint condition, which is another thing I lost. I know it’s here somewhere.

I love the modern way of doing things where we can buy a Painmaker Graphic Novel. You can have it and you will never have to worry about getting dog ears or someone spilling a coffee on it or losing it. That’s another thing about NFTs that people don’t quite grasp. You will never lose this. It’s always there. That’s something very important when you think about some of these older ways of looking at and consuming art. You can lose it and have it burned easily.

NFT Chris Jericho | Graphic Novel

Graphic Novel: Instead of spending money on content from Amazon, get it on NFT. It’s the new world where people are now consuming entertainment.


To the point of Chris leading a bunch of new people here, this is true. When we did his first two drops, they both sold out very quickly, but we allowed people to pay by credit card or PayPal. It’s not so new now. Through this method, by integrating into normal eCommerce flows, we intend to bring this to its natural audience base too and to people who are not involved with crypto and teach them that way.

You don’t necessarily even need to know that you’re buying something on the blockchain or an NFT. What you know is that you’re participating in the creation of this thing, idea, and story. I want to go back to the story of the story a little bit because it’s interesting. Chris, you developed this character. It was based in part on you, but then it became this thing. It had a life of its own that it took on.

Throughout this process and the evolution of technology and storytelling, it has evolved in this much bigger way. Going forward, you’ve indicated that there is this collaborative and community-oriented process behind this that’s helping to dictate the story from here. Can you talk to us a little bit about that? How do you intend to be the conduit for the story being told? How do you intend to facilitate this community becoming involved in where The Painmaker goes next?

The first two drops were experiments to see what interest and understanding there is for NFTs within my fan base. One of the things that David did very well is we hooked up with the right podcasts, media, shows, and people who understood the community. That, to me, was important because you don’t want to try and sell something to somebody that doesn’t want to buy. As the years and months go by, more people besides the San Diego Comic-Con talk about The Painmaker Graphic Novel.

There are more people now who are like, “I’m starting to understand more about this NFT, this blockchain, and this programmable art. I wasn’t too sure about it three months ago, but I’ve heard a couple of more. That’s how it works.” It’s going back to DVDs or cassettes. You mentioned 8-tracks. That’s a long time ago, but people still years ago liked having that piece of art or product in their hands. Books are Kindle, music is all Spotify and that sort of thing.

The most important thing is to take it to the streets and to the people who understand it. Those are the ones who get on it first and foremost, and then the word of mouth spreads. I have done a lot of stuff in my life where people went, “You’re crazy. You will never be a wrestler. You will never be in a rock and roll band with a gold album. You will never have your NFT graphic novel.” They’re the same people that say, “You will never have your Painmaker movie.” Watch me and see what happens because, sooner or later, there has to be a new way of doing things.

I know from a studio system that not everybody wants to make movies with Marvel or Sony Pictures. Not everybody wants to release records with Sony Music. Here’s the next stage for musicians. Joe Bonamassa, one of the greatest blues guitar players, is releasing his music as NFTs because he takes back control. You don’t have to give 80% to the record company anymore. You release it as your product.

Suddenly, people are buying. It’s going to be the way that music goes back to the artists as well and probably movies too. I’m sure there are a lot of studios and corporations that don’t like this conversation, but it’s the way it is. The genie is out of the bottle. Once this becomes a more accepted thing, I bet you that everyone is going to jump in with both feet. We will be sitting there on top of the mountain going, “I told you so.”

Later than some but earlier than most is what we like to say. The more you can get that community in the mix and involved in the storytelling and having a stake in the outcome of this adventure, the better it’s going to be. It’s already very successful.

Did any of you ever watch the original Aeon Flux on MTV?


That was a very mysterious and beautiful piece. There were little shorts after a little short. You and I wondered, “What was this world?” You dropped right into it. We were trying to make The Painmaker in that spirit. There’s a big world behind it. Believe us. We have built it out, but we don’t want to overexplain it. If there’s an audience, we want them to help decide what areas get built out, what areas the metaverse gets built out, or maybe what story gets told.

I understand there’s a lot of regulatory thinking about it. That’s disclaimer language there and proof that I’m not offering anything, but I believe there’s a mechanism here by which people, in a better way than Kickstarter, can join together. When they start seeing The Painmaker, they want to see this frame, the fight, and the background of where that fight started that the graphic novel can’t capture. They can decide to join together through an NFT offering. All of a sudden, we have more than enough money to build this out directly with the audience.

Even though we’re giving a low-cost entry into it because we want everybody to join, whether they understand or not, they still own that access and its unique piece of art. Maybe over time, it gets valued, but we’re first to the second wave. The first wave was rushed as the rest of the economy. It’s overheated and grandiose. The tide rolls back and what’s left is solid. What we’re doing in terms of storytelling here and working with people like yourself is to try to figure out in a more realistic and sustainable way how to make incredible self-sustaining projects. That’s the best aspect of Web3.

That’s exactly what we’re about. If people notice our tagline, that has been a guiding light for us from the very start, “The top 1% in NFTs and what will stand the test of time,” because we knew that it was a burgeoning world. There are a lot of exciting things and a lot of things that are going to be at the top of the news at the moment, but then there are also these diehard players who not only didn’t get into it, but they have been into the Web3 blockchain space for years with their heads down working on stuff. It’s almost like even those people that have been around longer will probably, therefore, be around even longer.

The Painmaker is a character that’s created. How can people get involved? I’m a huge Batman fan of the ’70s. Bob Kane creates Batman, but when Neal Adams and Denny O’Neil take over writing it, you’ve got these other people that are fans of Batman taking it in a different direction. I see the same thing with The Painmaker in this universe.

I created it. David is the producer, but there are people out there that will probably think, “Wait until I get ahold of The Painmaker from a graphic standpoint or a writing standpoint.” That’s what you want. You own the character but have at it and make this the coolest fricking character of all time. That’s another thing I like about this space and this community. People can grab a hold of that and take it whichever way they want to.

It’s beautiful. Before we wrap up this segment, we want to get some final thoughts from each of you on where you see the space going. What are your favorite things coming up? What are you looking to get into? Give us a little bit on that before we wrap this segment and get into Quick Hitters. Why don’t we start with you, Chris? What would be some final thoughts you would like to give to those things?

The literal sky is the limit because this is untapped and it’s uncharted waters. That can go as far as we want. From my personal standpoint, I love the fact that we can do a Painmaker graphic novel or a Painmaker movie and create a Painmaker virtual amusement park, a Painmaker video game, or whatever we want to do. From a music standpoint, when bands start releasing records directly to NFTs, that also changes the whole game. We already saw Kevin Smith do it with movies. TV shows have already started.

To me, this is the next version of this physical Blu-ray DVD. It’s becoming the new way of streaming and going to Amazon, Hulu, etc. You own a piece of it as well. You can contribute if you have ideas. There’s a direct line that we don’t have to worry about, “How do I get my script read?” You have a whole community that can do all of these things. I’m still learning about the podcasting game years in. I’m excited to see how much more we can go with this. We only barely started. It’s very exciting for me.

Graphic novels provide a place where people can be free and independent. But nowadays, most of them are very much corporate. Click To Tweet

It is so inspiring. David, are there any final thoughts before we kick into the next segment?

I’m going to stick with the theme I brought up before. We’re on the verge of allowing artists and audiences to build incredible stories between themselves. That’s where my focus will remain.

We appreciate it. It’s great having you here on the show. We want to move over to segment two. That’s Edge Quick Hitters. This is a fun and quick way for us to get to know you a little bit better. There are ten questions we ask every single guest in all 170 episodes we have done so far. It’s the same ten questions every single time. We’re looking for short, single-word, or few-word responses. I’ll guide who should be answering first in each case. Chris, we will start with you. Question number one, what is the first thing you remember ever purchasing in your life?

It’s the Beach Boys’ Summer Fun 8-track tape off of the TV commercial.

David, how about you?

I remember the Columbia Record Club. Do you remember that?

Yeah. It’s ten records for $0.01.

That’s how I got Billy Joel’s The Stranger. I had no idea who he was or what it was. It blew my mind.

Question number two, Chris, what is the first thing you remember ever selling in your life?

It’s probably hockey cards. We used to have hockey cards. You would try and sell them to your friends for $0.05 or then try and trade them for the ones that you need.

David, how about you?

I grew up in Kansas. The first thing I tried to sell was my service as a weed picker. I went around picking weed out of people’s yards.

Question number three, Chris, what is the most recent thing you purchased?

It’s probably this Zoom recorder right here that I’m talking to you with. I do my podcasting through this portable Zoom.

What model did you get?

It’s called H6 Zoom. It’s a great way to record, even if you want to record music or anything. It’s awesome.

David, how about you?

For the reader, he went back and pulled something from a cabinet. It’s a Badger comic book.

The Badger is the most amazing thing. It’s my favorite comic of all time. Hopefully, one day I’ll get to work with that team and bring it onto the blockchain. I bought that. I had to bid against somebody on eBay.

Question number four, Chris, what is the most recent thing you sold?

NFT Chris Jericho | Graphic Novel

Graphic Novel: With music artists releasing their work as NFTs, they take back control and avoid giving 80% to record companies.


It’s my wares as a wrestler and a musician. I can’t think of going out in the street and starting a lemonade stand or anything like that.

It’s whatever you’re selling digitally or physically. That works.

I didn’t sell much. A recent thing I sold is a punch to the face in a wrestling match.

That’s the first punch in the face on this show. David, how about you?

The whole Killroy NFT drop was the last big thing I sold.

Question number five, Chris, what’s your most prized possession?

Years ago, they made a Chris Jericho bowling ball. I could never find one. I got that in the mail.

Is the tone of that green or blue?

It’s ocean teal.

It’s got sparkles and a logo.

The holes are for a little kid. I can’t even use this.

It’s just a prop. I thought of some new NFTLA merch. We give away NFTLA bowling balls in the swag bag.

It’s much lighter than having to carry that around on an airplane.

That will reduce our merch budget because not too many people are going to take the bowling ball.

It can be quite an image. I can see capturing that on film. There are people walking in the crowd with bowling balls. No one knows what’s going on.

David, what’s your most prized possession?

I have an old Chinese sword that I’ve had for a long time. I’ve had a lot of training on it. It’s very special.

We will flip the order here. David, we will start with you. Question six, if you could buy anything in the world, digital, physical, service, or experience, that’s currently for sale, what would it be?

I’m satisfied now. I don’t need anything anymore. I’m good.

You’re solid. It’s like the Badger comic, we’re good.

You will never lose programmable art bought as an NFT. You know exactly where it is and what you could do with it. Click To Tweet

We’ve got to buy this guy some FOMO.

I don’t know what’s left. I have something that I would like. I don’t even know if it exists. I would like to get that cover blown up and have Jamie Delano, who was the first writer of Hellblazer, sign it. Show me how to do that. I’m in.

Chris, what would it be if there’s anything in the world you could buy digital, physical, service, or experience that’s currently for sale?

When Eddie Van Halen passed away, I found this auction house that was selling an Eddie Van Halen guitar. It was one of his Frankenstein guitars. I thought, “I wonder what that would cost. Let me see.” I’ve never been in an auction before. I put away a certain amount of money. Within three seconds, that money was gone. It went for five times as much, but at the same time, there was a Paul McCartney signed Hofner bass, which is the violin bass that he plays.

It’s hanging right there. I got it for the amount of money that I was going to pay for the Van Halen. I’m like, “Paul McCartney has to be worth more than Van Halen.” I felt pretty good about my purchase. I’m not a guy that looks for that sort of stuff, but I thought, “That would be something cool to hang on the wall.” That’s what it’s doing right over there.

It’s the history of it. Question number seven, David, if you could pass on one of your personality traits to the next generation, what would it be?


Get after it. Chris, how about you?

Persistence is a good one, and following your dreams and goals. Don’t take no for an answer. Make it happen. It’s a different type of persistence. Believe in yourself.

Chris is better because you’re in danger if you don’t agree with him.

I’ll throw a bowling ball at you.

If you want to buy a punch in the face, Chris has got one.

I wouldn’t bet against you.

Question number eight, David, if you could eliminate one of your personality traits from the next generation, what would that be?


We will go with that. Chris. How about you?

I don’t like change on the floor. It bothers me. I would like to get rid of that foible.

Do you want to stop dropping change? Do you want to stop getting bothered by it being on the floor?

I don’t like change on the floor of a car. If there’s a penny on the floor of my house, I don’t like it. It bugs me. You can tell I’m getting mad about it. If you’ve got change on your floor, you better take care of it.

That would be a great NFT connection. Change drops on the floor, and all of a sudden, Chris Jericho gets it.

NFT Chris Jericho | Graphic Novel

Graphic Novel: NFT allows you to own a piece of it. You can contribute your own ideas, and there’s a direct line that you can use to do this.


I would love that in a game. That sets the character off. That’s the porcupine spines. Question number nine, David, what did you do before joining us on the show?

I was working with the illustrator for Chris’s novel to go over some of the new pages, some of which I showed you.

How about you, Chris?

I was at an appointment, and then I had to go pick up some prescriptions at the drugstore. I let my dogs out so they could go pee. There you go. That’s the real behind the scenes.

Things happen. Chop wood and carry water. There you go.

There’s no job too big or too small.

David, question ten, what are you doing next after the show?

I’m going to get a glass of sangria.

That sounds nice and refreshing.

Maybe we should hang out a little bit after the show.

I’ll drink that in front of a mirror, take a picture of it, and make an NFT.

I’m coming over to your house for dinner. What are we having?

Let’s go. It’s Mexican. I’m ready. Let’s go.

I like it.

I’m wondering, Jeff, if your jiu-jitsu has a Bring a Friend Day where you can have Chris pop by with you and roll a little bit.

Let’s do it. I’m the worst for it, but I’m down.

I’m sure Chris, you’ve thought about MMA at some point in your life. People are transitioning back and forth between wrestling and MMA.

I’m excited to be invited to Bring a Friend Day. I’ve never been invited before. You better not be screwing with me here because you got my hopes up. I better be coming to one of your Friend Day celebrations.

It looks like we’ve got a bonus question. Somebody popped this one in here.

We didn’t get to touch upon it as much as we could. It’s a little bit sidetracked. Chris, you’ve been in podcasting for so long. We’re amped about podcasting. My question for you is this. What’s the biggest lesson you learned from podcasting so far?

Sky’s the only limit for NFT. We are navigating uncharted waters that can go as far as we want. Click To Tweet

You mentioned how there are over 2 million podcasts. There are so many. This is nothing against anybody. If someone wants to start a podcast, go for it and have the best time, but it is not easy to be a podcast host. It’s one of the hardest things to do. One of the best things you can do and the biggest tip, is to listen. The best podcasters listen. Anybody that shows up for a podcast or interview that has a list of questions, throw it away because it never works.

If we go to a bar and we’re hanging out, I don’t pull out a list of questions. You start talking. If you meet a girl at a bar, you don’t have a list of questions. You listen to where the conversation goes. It’s hard to go on and think, “How am I going to talk for an hour live without a net to somebody?” That’s why so few podcasts are successful. If you can do that, you will probably have a pretty good show because a podcast is not an interview. A podcast is a conversation. That is the best advice I can give you.

Thank you so much. At this point, that concludes our Edge Quick Hitters plus the bonus question.

We have this section for fan shout-outs. We have been talking about this internally. We didn’t know if there was anybody in your life, your work, and your organizations that you wanted to shout out and give a little bit of love that has been helping out on your end doing any good things. Is there anybody you want to shout out to?

I won’t speak for Chris, but I bet he feels the same way. I would like to shout out Kevin Smith.

Kevin and David have been very influential, but here’s a shout-out to everybody who embraces what we have been doing because the first two drops sold out quickly. It was interesting to me because I don’t think a lot of them were old-school Chris Jericho fans. There were a lot of new people who were getting involved in what we had created. To me, that’s exciting. That’s the shout-out.

Thank you for jumping in early because we’ve got a lot of great stuff coming out. Thank you for understanding and helping me to understand because it’s like one of those pictures that you look at for an hour, and you don’t see it. Suddenly, you look and say, “There’s a pirate ship. I see it.” Once you see it, it locks in, but it does take a while. It has been a great community. Guys such as yourselves make that happen.

Was that a shout-out to Mallrats in there, also?

It was but the reason why, though, is that when he made Mallrats, those pictures were all the rage. I used to get one in the Calgary Sun every Sunday. I look at the stupid thing and go, “There’s nothing there.” He never saw it. I saw it.

You see it now, for sure. There’s a big love for Kevin. He’s also a former guest of the show. That’s great stuff. Before we wrap, we’ve got to make sure our readers know where to follow you and everything that you have going on.

David wanted to show a panel. We could also give a shout-out to the artist behind that.

That would be a beautiful thing to do.

Let’s do that. It comes together quite nicely. We’ve got to get our socials in and where people can go to follow you and actions to take. Jeff was about to run into that. Chris, if you want to roll in, that’s cool.

Google me. That’s the best way to do it. At this point in time, you can find me. It’s pretty easy.

For The Painmaker, the project, and everything, is there a particular rabbit hole people should start with?

Follow Chris Jericho on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and all those places. I’ll be able to let people know that it’s around daily. I’ll tell you where you can get more information.

We will be talking about it. We will have a pretty sick giveaway coming as well. There are eight NFTs giving access to the first issues. Keep an eye out for all the details on that. We will run a contest and put the details out on our socials as well for the show. For the audience here, that’s an amazing and generous giveaway. We do appreciate that.

There’s a meet-and-greet virtually, Chris, with you that you’re planning for your NFT holders. We will loop in the winners of that contest too. They get to learn more about The Painmaker and your inspiration behind the project and maybe fire off some questions to you one-on-one, which would be a special opportunity. I appreciate you helping us with that.

Another great thing is we can do those sorts of things. It all pans out.

For the reader, we like to describe what we’re seeing.

NFT Chris Jericho | Graphic Novel

Graphic Novel: If someone wants to start a podcast, go for it and have the best time. The biggest tip here is to listen to the best podcasters out there and learn from them.


We’re not going to share too much about it, but we will say that the story is compelling. It’s a mystery. Access to the story is going to be very inexpensive, on par with getting a single comic in your comic book store, but over time, you will be able to see certain frames unlock. If you have other NFTs, more will unlock. We think there’s a lot to do in terms of that aspect of it. The frames you will be able to buy as your NFT so that when you get it, it will be a variation of super high resolution and a deeper look at what was going on in that frame that you will own. We’re covering both bases. We want as many people to read it as possible.

For the reader, I’ll give my best description of the frames. There are about four frames here. The top one is a bit of a black and white or grayscale of a cityscape with this ominous or elegant bird flying through the air. There are some interesting star-like symbols on the flags of the cityscape. The bird-like figure is flying in front of a theater that says, “Fozzy,” on the insignia there. The bottom panel is cool and colorful. It looks almost like a mall structure with some interesting flags and symbols on it. It looks like something is about to happen.

There’s stuff that has been happening. I would like to shout out our artist. John Gaertner has been working tirelessly on this.

Do you have any socials for him?

@ScribblePunk is what he goes by on Instagram.

Thank you.

We appreciate you sharing that, David. That’s a little glimpse of things to come here. We’re excited about it. We have reached the outer limit at the show. Thanks so much for exploring with us. We have space for more adventures on this starship, so invite your friends and recruit some cool strangers that will make this journey all so much better. How? Go to Spotify or iTunes, rate us, and say something awesome. Go to to dive further down the rabbit hole. Look us up on all major social platforms by typing EdgeOfNFT to start a fun conversation with us online. Lastly, be sure to tune in next time for more great NFT content. Thanks again for sharing this time with us.

Thanks for having us.


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