Joining us today is a special guest with a keynote discussion coming straight from NFT LA. Steve Aoki is a world-renowned music producer and the Founder of Dim Mak Records. He is also a lifelong collector in dGen, and a Web3 trailblazer with A0K1VERSE, a new ecosystem bridging the metaverse with the real world. Steve sits down for an interview with author Neil Strauss on how he’s working to build and empower communities in the Web3 space to encourage collaboration between creators. How is it different from Web2? How can players benefit from getting involved? Get the answers straight from Steve himself, along with his thoughts on preserving the space and protecting it from big companies trying to move in. Stay tuned.
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Steve Aoki
I want to remind you at the end of the day, not to go anywhere because we’ve got DJ Jim Jones. To close out the day on the highest of notes, our final keynote, the magic and mayhem of building community in a Web3 world, featuring Neil Strauss and Steve Aoki. Here they are, author Neil Strauss and music producer and executive Steve Aoki.
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Thank you for being here. This festival is wild. Steve and I were one of the first people to sign up for this. I don’t know when you did it. I thought I’d be in a small conference room. I didn’t think I’d be in this massive space with all these people in this sold-out event. It’s cool. There’s a saying that we’re early, but we’re right on time. Seeing how quickly this festival sold out and all these amazing people here, congratulate yourself for being here.
I’m proud and excited to be with the man sitting next to me. We all know he’s one of the best DJs. If you haven’t seen him, he’s one of the best performers in the world as far as I’m concerned. We first met at the White House Correspondents’ dinner, something crazy like that. The Founder of Dim Mak Records, a spectacular artist who’s worked with e legend of the last quarter century. Also, most importantly, a lifelong collector in dGen and Web3 trailblazer with A0K1VERSE, please welcome, Steve Aoki.
Neil Strauss, my favorite author of all time. Honestly, you’re brilliant.
We’ve never gotten to sit and chat. I’m excited. The great thing about this is I get to ask the questions I’ve always wanted to ask. We’ll start with the idea of how do you transition from being a collector of physical objects to digital objects and enter the NFT side of the space?
I’ve been a collector since I can remember. When I was a teenager, I was into comic books. I was opening up cards. I got big into vinyl because I was in bands. What we do is get records of our favorite record labels and get the whole set. It’s been a culmination of all these different collections in my house. My house is one huge museum of all these different collections when it comes to vinyl, books, cards, shoes, and art. I have art all over the walls. During COVID, I was stuck at home. That’s when I got back into cards. I understood the value of cards. I loved them because they were smaller than a big painting. They were sometimes comparable to the same prices of some of these expensive pieces of art I had on my walls. Some are more expensive.
You can’t have a lot of paintings, but you can have a lot of cards and NFTs.
I was like, “This is like miniature art.” I was accumulating them in safes. I was like, “This is cool.” I’m becoming a hoarder of a different sort. At a certain point, I was like, “It’s too much. I need a vault. This is too many cards.” I started vaulting the cards in a different location. Now, a majority of my high-end cards are somewhere else.
I have a high-res JPEG of the card that says I own it, and then if I’m like, “The price has gone up of my Michael Jordan rookie card, let’s sell it,” I don’t have to do anything. The vault deals with that. It’s cumbersome to sell these things. That was the same time I got into NFTs. It is when I started vaulting cards in the summer of 2020. It’s a natural evolution for me to go from a high-res JPEG of a card I own that’s in a vault in a safe somewhere to buying a digital piece of art that the market has dictated at this price.
I got into Bored Apes in the summer of 2021. I started getting into it. CryptoPunks was the first thing that my friends were telling me about. I was like, “This is an easy evolution for me to buy these JPEGs.” When I started seeing that, you can sell them like cards. I was like, “This is something I could easily get into.” I got in, and I got in big.
It’s a sickness. It’s so deep. Who feels like their life is not the same now that they’re in the NFTs than it was before?
I got a CryptoPunk in the summer of 2021. One of the things I always said when I got it was like, “Fuck, I wish I got it earlier.” My friend was telling me in late 2020, “You need to get a CryptoPunk. They’re $20,000.” I was like, “$20,000?” In February 2020, I was like, “That makes more sense. Now I’ll get one,” and I didn’t get one. I got one in July 2020 when it was 50 ETH. I got a 50 ETH one. I was like, “I should put it up for sale, but I’m going to put it up at a high price that no one’s going to touch.” I put it up for 300 ETH and then 21 days later, it’s sold.
That was when I was buying. I bought four Board Apes at 6 ETH. I thought that was crazy. It was $20,000 for a Bored Ape at that time. I was like, “I’m going to buy a couple.” I bought twelve World of Women. I went in on a couple of different projects. I even went big on 0N1 Force. I still believe in them. I bought an 88 ETH 0N1 Force.
It’s a great project. They are like art.
I love the project. I still believe in it. I’m not tossing them, and I’m holding. I’m a bag holder at the end of the day. I only sold one Bored Ape. I have ten now, and I’m still buying them.
You never forget your first NFT and that first sale, and it hooks you into it. How much do you think is the dopamine spikes and the art that all comes together?
One thing I’ve learned is to not FOMO so much because if I FOMO-ed in, I lose a lot.
Who’s FOMO-ed in and made a mistake there? You learn emotional control.
Here’s the thing, when people ask me, “What advice do you give to people that are just coming in?” I’m like, “I need to give myself the same advice.” Don’t FOMO in. I FOMO in. Do your research on the founders and the creators. I’m like, “Everyone is buying this shit. I must go in,” but I didn’t do the research. One of the lessons I’ve learned is that I have a great network of people that are massive collectors, digital artists, and musicians like myself in this diverse range of different kinds of people, which gives me a lot more insight to now what I buy.
Community in Web3: You have to understand the service and what they want because, once again, Web3 is ownership. If they don’t want it, they’re going to sell it. That’s beautiful. Let the people dictate if it’s a value to them.
It’s hard to move so fast. If you take the research, you might have missed the window.
The lesson I learned is never to buy just one if you have the opportunity to buy more. When I bought that one CrypoPunk and it sold, I was like, “I wish I didn’t put it up for sale,” but then I was happy for the sale clearly. That’s when I bought too. With all that profit, I bought two more. That’s when the Board Ape, I’m like, “I got to buy four Bored Apes. I can’t just buy one.”
What’s the optimal number that you’re going to buy now?
For some projects, I’ve got 30. For the Women, I got 12. I thought that wasn’t enough. Especially I was talking to Logan Paul and he bought 40 or whatever. I talked to Gary Vee about some projects. There’s always someone that goes in bigger than you that believes in a bigger like, “Should I have invested more into this project?” Sometimes you go deep. I went deep on Crypts at the top. It was 9 ETH or 10 ETH. I spent a lot on that, and that thing went down, but I’m still holding. I’m still having to talk myself off the ledge on some projects and now being more careful. I haven’t Aped in too hard on certain things, but always looking.
How many people here go as hard as Steve in this or would consider themselves dGens and go deep in this? How many people would like to?
I see what’s happening on the internet and they’re like, “Steve Aoki always buys at the top.” I see that shit. It makes me laugh. I see in the comments like, “You always buy at the top.” Yes, I believe in it. I don’t want it to drop.
You become the top signal. Everyone follows your wallet. As soon as you buy, they all sell.
I’m like, “What the fuck?”
We’re all sharing ideas stacking on top of each other. Click To Tweet
It’s a funny world because it’s so transparent. People know what a bad or good decision maker you are.
This is what I love about it. Every transaction is open. You can’t hide it. It is there. I do like that, but don’t sell. Join me.
Let’s talk about the transition from collecting to creating.
In this world, it’s very different than other worlds. In all their collectible worlds, there is a different distinction between the collector and the creator. Shoes, for example. There are people that buy shoes and resell shoes. They’re popular from that, like Benjamin Kickz, or even stores like Kith. They grow in this world of the secondary. I’m not saying Kith is a secondary, but I’m saying the collector doesn’t become the creator. It doesn’t become Nike. It’s a very clear distinction. It happens in cards. There’s a massive market of the secondary with these card shows like the National and things like that.
There are the card companies like Pokémon. In my case, MetaZoo, which is a TCG that I’m a partner in. You don’t go from collector to creator. Historically, it doesn’t happen. By exception, it happens. I try to break that whenever I can. That’s where I feel like the entrepreneurial spirit in what I’ve done is always like, “I’m going to immerse myself in the industry. I always try to find a way. How do I innovate or be a creative part of the whole culture?” That’s where I stand.
If I love music, I want to make music. The art side pulls you in as well.
It’s natural. When I was making records and music when I was sixteen, I made my first demo. I was at the same time making a t-shirt in my mom’s closet, emulsifying the ink and doing the whole thing, inside of the t-shirt and then going, “This is a merch business.” It’s understanding what that looks like and being part of that. The main difference is in the NFT world, the collector creator can be the same. It’s normalized that the collector becomes a creator. The barrier of entry is open. It’s accessible. You hear a collector or someone in the industry that’s part or a voice of the secondary. It’s common for that person to also become a big creator.
This is crazy. You’re doing a show, which is the first show ever for people who hold your passports to A0K1VERSE, which is a cool transition. Is anyone here a holder of A0K1 credits or the passports?
Community in Web3: The idea is that these memberships, communities, and what we’re already building are all interconnected.
I love seeing that. Thank you, guys.
Let’s get the rest of you at the secondary to come to the show with the wisdom.
I got a show if you guys want to come out. It means a lot to me because it’s the first A0K1VERSE exclusive show that we’re doing. A0K1VERSE is a membership community. That’s what I’ve realized. One of the other things I’ve told a lot of different creators is clear that a lot of artists are jumping into NFTs. Obviously, you have to understand what community, utility, and roadmap means. We already know that conversation. The next thing that you understand is what your service is and how you amplify that well. You have to understand what people want. For me, I do shows. I’m a musician and artist. That’s clear. I’m going to offer that.
I realized in understanding what Web3 and Web2 is. The two worlds are different. Web3 is a relationship you have with people. Web2 is a fandom, fan club, one-way conversation. I make music. You listen to it, whether you like it or not. If you don’t like it, you don’t listen to it. If you don’t want to go to the show, you don’t come. Web3, there is a two-way conversation and you have to participate in that conversation. I tell artists, “You need to be more participatory than you’ve ever been before.” This is all new. Most artists don’t know to be participatory.
That’s the big difference between Web2 and Web3. That’s going to change artists’ thinking about how they can be more than just the music and this. This is what A0K1VERSE is all about. What we realize is that I’ve been part of, for the past few months, leading up to A0K1VERSE. I’ve been so deep in the Web3 communities.
I have created many amazing relationships and partnerships with blue chip projects. There’s a whole network in Web3, and I already have a whole network in Web2 because I’ve worked with many different brands, institutions, and companies that want to deal with Web3. Web3 projects, institutions, and people that want to deal with Web2. We have this massive network. It’s diverse. I’m in so many different industries that that’s where the value is.
That’s what A0K1VERSE is all about. It’s not just the shows and the fan club experience. It’s much more. It’s about the network. What we did is we launched A0K1VERSE and we delivered on allow list of incredible projects. Bapeverse, I’ve done a collaboration with Bape. They gave us allow lists. The World of Women Galaxy. We know them. We deal with them. They gave us allow list to World of Women. Gala Games did The Walking Dead. Snoop Dogg with Sandbox. Todd McFarlane and I started a marketplace called Oddkey and that whole world.
The first thing we did was we got to bring this access and the network. If that’s what people want, let’s deliver the goods. We realized that’s the value. You have to understand the service and what they want because, once again, Web3 is ownership. If they don’t want it, they’re going to sell it. That’s beautiful. Let the people dictate if it’s a value to them. If it’s not, they’ll sell it. If it’s great, it should go up. It’s like Gary Vee’s Veefriends.
A lot of people don’t get that. There’s way more to it than they’re buying this image.
It is not a fan club. That’s what I’ve realized. I tell artists, I’m like, “A0K1VERSE model is not a fan club. It’s a social membership. This is something you can apply to your world.” There are so many different worlds. I was talking to Supercar Blondie. She’s all big into cars. She’s got this whole car world. She’s got an incredible network. I could help you build that for all those people that love cars. There are many different people that have so much to offer in their world where this person here is like, “I love certain cars and access to those companies,” then you should join that network. That’s what we do.
At the end of your roadmap, what keeps evolving?
The multiverse. The idea is that these memberships, communities, and what we’re already building are all interconnected. When we launched A0K1VERSE, we launched with 24 different projects whitelist into our space that we work with, whether it’s Doodles, Janky Squad, 3lau, FVCKRENDER, WhISBe, or whatever it might be. That’s how we started. It’s all about sharing our communities and making it larger. Web3 is small. In terms of the macro, it’s still micro.
One of the most beautiful things I’ve seen so far is how much these projects and people have so much harmony working together. It’s not like, “This is my tech. You can’t touch it.” A0K1VERSE is an amalgamation of all these different groups that we work in. Whether it’s the Hundreds’ Adam Bomb Squad to Gary Vee’s Veefriends and all these different things, we’re all sharing ideas stacking on top of each other. We have sustainability.
What makes it work is it’s cooperative, not competitive.
Being part of this new frontier allows us to have this harmony because we’re so small, we have to work together. Maybe it’s all about having these micro worlds in the macro world so that we can all have these interconnected communities where we’re all working together and supporting each other. That’s essentially where I want to see the A0K1VERSE community and our network connecting with other micro-networks. We’re all fusing together, working across the lines, and doing all different kinds of fun activities, engagement, and access to things that we love to experience because that’s what life is. It’s experiences.
What I give at my shows is an experience. I hope to God I have given a fucking great experience. That’s my end goal. The person I cake in the face, I want them to be screaming. Everyone’s excited. They leave and they’re like, “Ten years ago, Steve Aoki caked me in the face. It’s the best tiem of my life.” That’s the kind of experience I want to deliver. I want to make you feel something. The most important thing and a lesson in life are to amplify your feelings. Feel it. All we have are memories, moments, and experiences that matter to us. I’m lucky to be able to play shows. I am constantly amplifying my emotional cords to the world and my feelings out.
Community in Web3: Web3 is innovation and maneuverability. You have to move fast. Institutions, especially large ones, can’t move fast. It’s going to be the most innovative people that are nimble, quick to move, and understand what people want are the ones that can make it happen.
It never gets old. I do 200 shows a year, 15 years straight. I never broke below 200 shows around the world. I never got jaded. I never was ungrateful. I was grateful every day I was on stage because I’m lucky to do what the fuck I get to do to connect with so many people. How lucky is that to feel something? The beauty is I’m connecting with a stranger. Someone I don’t know, we’re eye-to-eye, focus, crying or having emotion, screaming, and they’re ripping their shit off. They’re like, “Cake me.” I’m like, “Yes.” We connected. We have bigger than sex. It was a real connection. That’s why fans exist because they want to feel that. “I’m a fucking fan to feel.”
That’s what we’re here for. We need that in this space a lot. The last question to close things out and this is an important question for all of you to think about as well. There was so much money being generated in this space. Someone can do a mint and make tens of millions of dollars in half an hour. That’s attracting a lot of big companies and we’re in this golden, beautiful moment right now. You, me, and everybody sitting here, what can we do to preserve exactly what you’re talking about and keep Web3 from becoming Web2 where the small players move in and create a stranglehold on everything?
Web3 is innovation and maneuverability. You have to move fast. Institutions, especially large ones, can’t move fast. They can try. They’re too clunky and too big. You have to cross all these different yeses to make a bigger decision. That’s why Adidas works with gmoney. That’s why Nike goes to RTKF. It’s the innovative people that are maneuvering fast, understanding what people want, thinking and making that decision ahead, and go on. That’s all what we do. We create something and we’re like, “That’s what people want.” No, it’s not, then it fails. The RTFK with Clonex, the Bored Apes, whatever it might be, these are people like us with ideas. They grow it.
The Nikes and all the large institutions have to use us and work with us. I don’t think it’s problematic to work with a large company at all. At the end of the day, it’s going to be the most innovative people that are nimble, quick to move, and understand what people want. They’re the ones that can make it happen. We’re safe there. At least that’s my hope.
A big round of applause for Steve Aoki for being here and sharing this goal with all of you. Thank you.
Thanks, Neil.
Important Links
- Dim Mak Records
- A0k1VERSE
- Bored Ape
- CryptoPunks
- 0N1 Force
- Pokémon
- MetaZoo
- World of Women Galaxy
- Gala Games
- Oddkey
- Veefriends
- Supercar Blondie
- Doodles
- Janky Squad
- 3lau
- FVCKRENDER
- WhISBe
- Adam Bomb Squad
- gmoney – Instagram
- RTKF
- Clonex
About Steve Aoki
Steven Hiroyuki Aoki is an American DJ, record producer, music programmer, record executive, and heir to his father Rocky Aoki’s fortune from the Benihana restaurant franchise. In 2012, Pollstar designated Aoki as the highest grossing electronic dance music artist in North America from tours.
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