Navigating the Creator Economy at NFTLA: How the Playbook for NFT and AI is Shifting

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In this thought-provoking episode of The Edge of Show, host Josh Kriger sits down with Scott Mortman, Josh Lawler, and Taylor Good to explore the intersection of AI and Blockchain Regulation for Creators. As Web3 continues to evolve, creators face unprecedented challenges and opportunities in protecting their intellectual property, navigating global policies, and leveraging new technologies like AI and blockchain.

The conversation dives deep into how NFTs are more than media, why U.S. stablecoin legislation matters for the creator economy, and how outdated copyright laws are struggling to keep up with innovation. Discover how blockchain can safeguard AI-generated content, why creators must understand international legal frameworks, and what ethical considerations drive AI adoption. Whether you're an artist, developer, or entrepreneur in the Web3 space, this episode offers a roadmap for turning technological disruption into creative empowerment.

Key Topics Covered

• The Role of AI and Blockchain in Creator Protection:
  How AI is transforming creative production and how blockchain provides tools for safeguarding digital assets in the Web3 ecosystem.
  
  
• NFTs as Media, Not Securities:
  Insights from Josh Lawler on why NFTs are simply media and how their regulation depends entirely on their underlying use case.
  
  
• Global Policy and Stablecoin Implications:
  Discussion on U.S. legislation around stablecoins and its ripple effect on creators, global commerce, and digital asset adoption.
  
  
• Legal Risks for Global Creators:
  The importance of understanding international legal obligations, including EU privacy laws and cross-border intellectual property challenges.
  
  
• Ethical AI Use and Creator Compensation:
  Scott Mortman outlines the four Cs—Compensation, Consent, Control, and Clarity—and how they shape fair treatment for creators in the AI era.
  
  

Episode Highlights

1. "AI and blockchain work hand-in-hand: create with AI, protect with blockchain." – Scott Mortman
   
   
2. "NFTs are simply media. How they are regulated depends entirely on what they represent." – Josh Lawler
   
   
3. "Stablecoins could revolutionize how creators monetize directly, without needing traditional banks." – Josh Lawler
   
   
4. "The law is always behind technology. It’s like having road safety laws before highways are built." – Scott Mortman
   
   
5. "Creativity isn’t just about making art. It’s about having a unique perspective and applying it to build meaningful things with AI." – Taylor Good
   
   

People and Resources Mentioned

• Josh Kriger
  
  
• Scott Mortman
  
  
• Josh Lawler
  
  
• Taylor Good
  
  
• Voice Actors Guild
  
  
• OpenSea
  
  
• Zuber Lawler
  
  
• Myco.io
  
  

About Our Guests

Scott Mortman

Scott Mortman is a leading legal expert and educator focused on AI and entertainment law. As a professor of AI law at Purdue University, he specializes in guiding creators and organizations through the complexities of intellectual property, digital identity, and cross-border regulations. Scott advises the Voice Actor Guild and works extensively with artists and companies to develop ethical frameworks and protective strategies for AI-driven industries.

LinkedIn: Scott Mortman
Twitter: @scottmortman

Josh Lawler

Josh Lawler is a seasoned attorney specializing in blockchain, Web3, and emerging technologies. With years of experience advising companies and creators, he brings unparalleled insight into digital asset regulation and compliance. Josh is a partner at Zuber Lawler, where he focuses on capital raising, intellectual property transactions, and M&A in the blockchain and AI sectors.

LinkedIn: Josh Lawler
Website: Zuber Lawler

Taylor Good

Taylor Good is an innovative Web3 artist and entrepreneur pushing the boundaries of digital art and AI-powered creativity. Known for leveraging emerging platforms like MidJourney and Discord, Taylor builds cutting-edge tools and experiences for collectors and creators. His work blends technology, artistry, and startup culture to redefine what it means to be a modern digital creator.

LinkedIn: Taylor Good
Twitter: @taylorgood

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Transcript:

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Intro Outro: Welcome to The Edge of Show, your gateway to the Web3 revolution. We explore the cutting edge of blockchain, cryptocurrency, NFTs, ordinals, DeFi, gaming and entertainment, plus how AI is reshaping our digital future. Join us as we bring you visionaries and disruptors pushing boundaries in this digital renaissance. This show is for the dreamers, disruptors, and doers that are pumped about where innovation meets culture. This is where the future begins.

Josh Kriger: All right, welcome back, everyone. Hope everyone had some pizza, got to check something out, make some new friends, see some old friends. I'm really excited to moderate this panel. My name is Josh Krieger. I'm the co-founder of Anantile and co-host of a show called The Edge of Show. Things are sheish. You may also know us as the Edge of the FT. We did a little rebrand this year and have had over 400 legends of space on the show and love to have interesting conversations, I think, about things that really matter in our industry. And I think we're at a real precipice. I mentioned that earlier with where do things go now? Obviously, there's some fog that's clearing. There's some new legislation that's really interesting. it's a chance to sort of reflect, I think, and reset in terms of what is the sort of impact of NFTs and AI in our world and how can those people that just love to create get the most value out of this technology and not be marginalized by it, but use it as a weapon of offense versus defense. But I think it also comes down to understanding the playbook and what's going on in the industry and where we're at. With that said, I have War Hoddle, who's an iconic artist in our space, as well as Josh Lawler, who's a frequent guest on our show and also doing a lot in this space, and then a new friend, Scott, who actually does quite a lot in Web3, but also around AI and is advising the Voice Actor Guild. Yeah, so we'll talk about all these topics. And I guess to start, gentlemen, maybe just kind of give us a sense of looking back at where we were as an industry one year ago and two year ago. Are things better, worse, or the same?

Scott Mortman: Scott, you want to kick it off? Yeah, sure. I think if you look, you focus on technology and AI and the like, whether things have gotten more or less complicated in the last couple of years depends on who you are. If you're an AI platform that has got used to ingesting other people's protected data without consent or compensation and using it and creating a product to the market, Then things have gotten worse for you, more complicated, because we're slowly moving out of the Wild West. There's more, you know, there's talk of more regulation. There was a recent court case a couple months ago where finally a federal judge told an AI platform that they don't qualify under the fair use exceptions. And so they were actually using copyrighted data and were prohibited from doing so. I'm Arguably, it's a little less complicated. It's getting better for the reasons I mentioned, which is that people are a bit more aware of the risks now that creators can look to to understand what the challenges and risks are. And the regulation, it's moving slowly, but it's moving in the direction of supporting the creative community.

Josh Lawler: Josh, what's your take? I don't know that I'd go with a better or worse type of paradigm because we're just more advanced and it's going to be kind of a constant cycle. There's definitely a better environment for legislating, but we're in a situation that I don't think is going to change no matter who is in office, which is that law cannot keep up with technology. And that at this point is not going to change anytime without just massive upheaval. So, you know, when you look at kind of better or worse, and I think you had a very interesting answer in terms of, well, if you're an artist, and well, if you're an AI platform, but that's all really very fluid, because, you know, the trick now is just understanding the landscape and being able to maneuver within it. And, you know, you kind of make your own way is the way I would kind of look at that.

Taylor Good: Oh man, I think what you said, um, that resonates just from the standpoint of, uh, being a creative and pushing buttons and putting yourself out there. I don't know if it's better or worse, but, uh, you know, given web three and given AI, just how emerging both of those are, uh, you know, there's, there's not a rule book per se, you know, I think from a, uh, moral, like a, At the intuitive standpoint, there's definitely a, like there's over under, but the idea of, you know, with web three, it was such a, you can just, you can mint any there. And now what you're seeing with AI, the, the phrase, you can just do stuff or you could just do things. So I don't know if it's better or worse, but it definitely requires an active navigation.

Josh Kriger: Going on, Josh, let's go back to your area around policy. I saw you at the DeFi Blockchain Summit. I know you have a close partnership with the digital chamber over there, and we're all really watching and trying to understand what's actually going to be the implications of the legislation that's coming out. I just saw an article yesterday about a new joint bill that's coming out. What do you think is sort of the opportunity here in terms of how US regulations are going to impact digital artists, creator economy in general, and what are the global implications of these changes in the US policy? Small, small question. Yeah, break it all down.

Josh Lawler: OK. You guys want to know the answer to that, right? I do. I do have answers, but you know. So first off, you know, the regulations that are happening now at the major kind of geographically based sovereign powers are massive and going to have huge impact in so many different ways that, you know, you can't even start to catalog them. The legislation you're mentioning now, which is, you know, in my mind, it's kind of the low hanging fruit slam dunk has to do with stable coins. And, you know, I don't know that they necessarily impact the creator economy in particular, so I'm going to keep it to the 32nd version. But the short version is that the government actually is making a move that has a really good chance of saving the dollar's presence as the top currency on the planet. basically by allowing anybody who has a phone to no longer need a bank account to get dollars. They can just get a stable coin that is backed by a dollar someplace. And interestingly enough, just about anybody can issue these stable coins as long as they go with the rules. So in my mind, and this is creator economy, you very likely may see the Taylor Swift dollar, uh, the Batman dollar, um, you know, pretty much anybody who Banksy dollar, how crazy would that be? So, that's super interesting and it's a good example of progress that's actually happening.

Josh Kriger: The war-huddled dollars?

Josh Lawler: Yeah. I mean, it's insane where that goes. I mean, somebody from a prison will at some point create their prison dollar. In terms of legislation affecting the creator economy, it's interesting because what I haven't seen is any kind of thought about amending the Copyright Act. And it really badly needs it. Because there is a lot of cloud over it. I mean, I think that there's enough judicial precedent that, you know, it can be interpreted to get to this point of like, okay, well, if you just use a prompt, and the AI is doing it, that's not protectable. If it's more like a tool, and it's a paintbrush, and somebody is very skilled doing it, maybe that is protectable. you know, those types of things. But that's just, you know, a small piece of it. And I'll let Scott talk to protecting the actual artists because he knows that a heck of a lot better than I do.

Josh Kriger: Yeah, sounds good. Let's touch on that, Scott. And then let's talk about international frameworks, too, and how those are changing.

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Scott Mortman: I wanna pick up a point that Josh just made, because it's a great one. It talked about the fact that there aren't changes to the Copyright Act, and the truth of the matter is you're 100% right. Oh, sorry. Law is constantly lagging behind technology, and that's the reason right now we have social media regulation that was written in 1996, when there was no social media. And it's still active, which is crazy. It's like coming up with road safety laws before you have an interstate highway. And so while the progress is being made in the area of regulations and the like, it's at a glacial speed. In terms of leveraging international networks and the like, look, this is a great time for creatives. I love the fact that somebody can be sitting in their home or office in downtown LA and create something and through AI and other uses convert it into any language and shoot it out into the world and the world becomes your audience. In fact, what I like even more than that is not so much the person in downtown LA, but think about a person in downtown Vento, Namibia, or Accra, Ghana. I mean, all of these places that have been, in many respects, left out of the main advances of the technology revolution now have access. And so there is this, you know, like the internet, AI, blockchain and the like, they don't recognize geographic barriers. In fact, the broader the scope, the geographic scope, the more robust the platform is. And so I think it's a fantastic time to be a creator internationally. I think it's great to be in a position where you have access to a lot of information on how you can develop your product. You have resources like AI and others that, you know, you're a single individual that allow you to create the equivalent of what somebody would create 20, 30 people would do a few years ago. So there's a lot out there on the international.

Josh Kriger: Do you have to be concerned as a creator about landmines and tripwire when you're doing projects that have a global audience?

Scott Mortman: Yeah, you have to have broader, so that's the downside, right? Which is there's more risk because you could wind up, for example, you don't have to be in the EU to be responsive to EU data privacy laws and the like. The fact that people in the EU have the luxury of opting out of, I'm sorry, opting in its assistance as opposed to opting out the US. We're just here in the US in a much less regulated environment. But you could create something here in L.A. that could have implications, and you'd have to be aware of what the regulations are as you push it out and market it to other places. Now, again, the resources are there for you to educate yourself, but you have to be aware of the fact that there's a need to educate yourself.

Josh Kriger: Right, you can't just, you know, brush it under the rug. Warhol, what are your thoughts as an artist on how these social platforms that are having to be responsible to antiquated laws can be modern in their approach to compensation structures and IP structures with artists like yourself? I mean, we've seen so many shifts in how you can work with platforms like Instagram and Twitter, X, and now new projects like Rodeo. And, you know, I'm sure you've looked at all these platforms. And for me, it would be a little bit of a mind bender in terms of how to work with these platforms, how to think about your IP, how to sort of create long term value.

Taylor Good: So thank you. The idea of putting yourself out there, like what comes to mind is the idea of putting yourself out there, like you're as a creative or, you know, but asking as a creative, you're, you're partaking in internet culture. And so, you know, there, there are the messaging platforms like the, the broadcasting platforms like an X, but I, I always try and think about how to go vertical, whether it's your.com on something you're offering. Um, One recently, it's called WHOP, W-H-O-P dot com. It's like a cracked version of Patreon. I think that's fascinating.

Josh Kriger: Rumble too, Rumble's fascinating. So it's like a new version of YouTube.

Taylor Good: Well, that's the thing. It's like, you're a content first, you're a creative, or just with the idea of putting yourself out there. Again, it's like, I look at it more zoomed out from, it is just, it's internet culture. As an artist in particular, Like X has been the X factor and the Twitter of the time when I really started, but that to me is just, it's remarkable in what is possible, even if it's not a direct value exchange on the platform itself.

Josh Kriger: Yeah, appreciate all those thoughts. We talked about the positives, and Scott, you started to talk about the landmines. Josh, I sort of saw you acknowledge his comment. What are some of the other sort of legal risk concerns that you're talking to clients about on a regular basis when it comes to the greater economy?

Josh Lawler: It's really funny. So the clients I have, they're not necessarily coming to me for advice on their creative process or anything like that. It's really one of two things, and maybe sometimes they're blended together, which is how do I protect myself and how do I not get in a lot of trouble? And, you know, as I was saying before, I mean, the things shift so fast, as was mentioned, you know, you have to worry about the fact that you're hitting every jurisdiction on the planet at the same time, unless they happen to block the internet, North Korea. So, you know, you kind of have to go back to basic principles, which is what you were saying a second ago. you know, don't do something that's going to rip somebody off. Like, you know, if your version of ARK is a mean token and you're going to go and then snipe, you know, 98% of it and kind of beat things down against your like, like you're stealing basically. So don't do things like that. And like, I like to try to keep the Africa very simple, you know, on the, you know, from the perspective of if you have a token, or NFT, which could very well be a piece of, you know, art or a series or generative or whatever it's going to be, that has a financial ish component to it, which might just be appreciation and value. Don't do things where it looks like you've got insider trading type asymmetric information. I was talking with somebody from OpenSea earlier today, and they had that issue a while ago where somebody on the inside knew what was going to be a featured artist and would buy those NFTs ahead of time. Don't do stuff like that. You know, that's really the best way to kind of avoid too much trouble. And then on the protection side, you kind of have to recognize that the law is not really sufficient to protect you right now. You know, even if it was, again, you're chasing the planet. You know, if somebody who is in Orange County violates your stuff, fine, great, sue them. If somebody who is in Mongolia violates your stuff, You know, good luck. That's the world you're in. So as you're planning kind of your art and your monetization methodologies, just recognize the fact that if you have success, you're going to be imitated. So what are you going to do about it? How are you going to set yourself up with a business model that is not going to be wrecked by that imitation?

Josh Kriger: Fair enough. Are we in the clear at this point? Is it official that NFTs are not securities? And as a related question, what about if we combine NFTs and real world asset projects and start to, you know, put, you know, a piece of Bitcoin in every digital wine arc that you buy that comes with real wine that you know, produces a dividend on, you know, the next 10 years of wine sales, then are we going back to the world securities?

Josh Lawler: Like, how is how is all this changing? Okay, so you're hitting one of my favorite kind of pet peeve questions. So I will I will answer your first question kind of moots the second one, though, we'll get to that anyways. NFT is media. That is all that it is. It's like a piece of paper. It is whatever it represents. You know, whatever that metadata is on that NFT, that is what an NFT is. So asking how you regulate an NFT is like asking how you regulate paper. And of course, you very quickly get to the answer. What is on the paper? So what is on the NFT? So NFTs by themselves, not securities, not commodities, not really anything other than media. In terms of the mixed use token, which is one of my favorite topics, one of the things I love about this space actually is that a digital asset can be more than one thing at a time. And from that perspective, from a regulatory perspective, what we're talking about now is, you know, if you're putting something out there and it's got multiple uses, expect to be regulated on each use. So, you know, the fact that your financial product happens to have a piece of art on it is not going to save it from being regulated as a financial product. And at the same time, the fact that it's got a financial element to it does not mean that the art on it somehow is now invalid and not subject to protection. You know, Especially over the last four years, because our government has been as messed up as it has been, we've been playing a lot of games with multiple use cases in order to be able to take advantage of particular regulations and avoid other regulations while we're doing it, sometimes on an international basis. But that's just what they are, is they're games. When you get into real commerce, you know, it actually turns a little bit more simple, like you're going to be regulated and protected based on what's actually there. And if 10 different things are there, you're going to be regulated and protected based on 10 things.

Josh Kriger: All right, well that clears a lot up for me. Does that clear things up for you guys? Yeah, see some head nods, so thank you. Scott, you have some additional thoughts on that or? Okay, well let's talk about AI then. You know, you were recently, I think, quoted, and was it the LA Times? About some of your perspective and where AI is going and how it sort of impacts this new burgeoning industry of likeness and identity. What are the sort of implications of that in terms of other technologies like blockchain and how all that sort of merges together? Because you play on both sides of the house. So I'm curious what you're thinking about, dreaming about at night in terms of what happens when we're mixing, you know, AI voices and likeness and beings with blockchain technology.

Scott Mortman: Yeah, well, playing on both sides of the house is usually the best way to win.

Josh Kriger: Look, they're going to be diversified in this current economy, right? That's the whole, that is the playbook of creator economy that I hear from everyone is get diversified.

Scott Mortman: Look, I think AI and blockchain, in many respects, work hand-in-hand because AI has the ability to make blockchain more efficient. And the stuff that you create on AI right now can be protected by blockchain. So I always counsel, you create with AI, you protect through blockchain. And the ability to create through AI is rapidly growing, as anyone who's using it realizes. And likewise, the ability to protect things through blockchain is pretty significant. And it's frankly, if you're a creator, part of your role is a practical one, which is just kind of educate yourself about risks. Part of it is a legal one, which is understanding how you're protected by whatever contracts you enter into, and also how you're not protected. Because I deal with a lot of voice actors who have entered into agreements over the past several years, and they didn't protect themselves from AI use. for a very good reason, which was there wasn't much. They didn't see it coming. And so trying to explain to them, no, that contract you signed is still valid five, six years later is a hardship for that.

Josh Kriger: I just picture all these executives in the industry looking at these old contracts saying, which voices can we now exploit? Look, I know it's not that evil, but

Scott Mortman: No, you know what, that goes to Josh's point, which is you look at, I teach AI law at Purdue, and I always start off by telling the students, what I'm gonna try and teach you is AI ethics, because a lot of what's legal at the moment isn't ethical. And the law will change, it'll slowly change and catch up to that. But if you tell a five-year-old, hey, I'm gonna build a model, and I'm gonna take stuff from you, and I'm not even gonna ask your permission, and then I'm gonna go out and sell it, What do you think of that? The five-year-old will tell you to steal it. All right, so some of this is some basic common sense that, regrettably, the law hasn't yet caught up to, and it will eventually. I guess the one thing, the way I sort of summarize is usually when I, I think it was in the LA Times article, and when I speak to people in the entertainment industry, it used to be the three Cs and the three Ls. It's now the four Cs and the four Ls. So.

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Scott Mortman: The four things that you want to be concerned about if you're a creator are compensation that you get fairly paid for your work, consent that you agree that your work can be used, control, which means you don't just consent once, but if there's going to be changes in how your, and AI is always changing, so if there's going to be changes in your image or your voice, likeness, you want to have the ability to understand that and have some control over it. And then overlaying all of that is clarity or transparency. So those are all the four things that I tell people in the entertainment industry, you need to be mindful of. The solutions to that are the four L's, which is, it used to be three, but it's basically legislation, which we've talked about, litigation, which is growing quite a bit, and it's largely in favor of the creators. The new third L is labor strike, thanks to SAG-AFTRA. But where I see those three Ls heading is the fourth L, which is licensing. I think eventually, through those three Ls, we're going to get to a licensing model in which a lot of the concerns of creators are protected. It's going to be a win-win because the people using the content for AI will clearly profit. It's just they have to share some of that profit with the creators themselves.

Josh Kriger: Thank you for those insights. Warhuddle, you've been diving down the AI rabbit hole as well. How have you sort of decided to relate to AI? Is it sort of in an offensive way, in a defensive way, in a sort of all-in way? And what is your perspective on sort of the risk that you're sort of thinking about at this point as you sort of start with your new AI endeavor that I guess we'll hear about soon?

Taylor Good: For me it stems back to the movie Her with Joaquin Phoenix 2013 and that was like such an aha or like whoa you know and that to see that It's reached that tipping point where it's just undeniable. It's fascinating for me in itself. It started though, from the creative process standpoint, it started with mid-journey in Discord in the last six months. And then the whole vibe coding movement really, my X algorithm sort of has switched from crypto Twitter to like the solo founder, like building public, like you can just do stuff for improvement. And so that's where I discovered, you know, the, the, the prompting and just the full reach of that. Um, and the idea that you can use like lovable or Rourke and text to For example, to create an app, to create an app as an artist for myself, for collector management, available pieces, and that's done in a night where like having a background in startups, the first thing was out of college, we're talking like iOS 7, doing a nightlife app, because when you're 22, it's like, that's what you think is super cool. But it took, outsourcing to Russia and it took like three months to get v1 and it cost like $30,000 that me and my buddies didn't have but did and the idea again that you can do that now in like an hour or two with the prompting movement it just like because creativity there's that saying of um it's not the ability like Creativity is not the ability to draw on paper. It's having a unique outlook that you can apply to anything, or a unique perspective, and the idea that then you're using AI as your creative tool in order to build things. That's where it's been such a paradigm shift, like even in the last month alone, and seeing what's possible, and also just the advancements that are happening daily and weekly in the AI landscape. So that's where art for me grew up with it and it was an outlet. The idea that it became meaningful in the last four or five years as a professional artist has been living the dream. But I've always known that I put the startup hat back on. And so that's where it's just the paradigm shift again. what can I build that's meaningful, you know, maybe even in an absence, high function. And so I'm working on something in stealth with, that sounds silly, but it's just early, with a close friend of mine who CTO, co-founder type, and he started with machine learning and AI about eight years ago. And so that's where I'm just all in on it. And I'm looking at art more now as a, again, back to just being a creator outlet and a hobby and doing things that are like ridiculous projects in scale that make me freak out, like obsessed, not like got to put something out or think too much about it to try and cover overhead or runway.

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